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Tips, Ties And Tactics
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 Closing The Deal: Setting The Hook – Are There Any Principles?
Posted by AvidDavid on Thursday, March 30 @ 19:21:40 PST
Consideration of hook sets (circle hooks , strip sets vs. trout/steelhead sets) makes me think about why we set hooks the way that we do. Do we need to react quickly to avoid the fish’s refusal of the fly? Or do we react quickly because WE are excited?
When does the fish decide to spit out the fly? There are times when I think that I am too slow in my reactions (no hook-up), and other times when I believe that the fish that I hook seem totally self hooking, requiring no finesse on my part. Typically, now, I attempt a hook set immediately when I detect a strike while fly fishing. I think that I am biased by the reading that I have done. But I also think that this is how many of us react.
Is the fish making a sudden decision based on the feel of the fly or on the resistance it senses to swimming away with the fly? I think that we concentrate on making (or buying) flies that LOOK like a natural meal, but do we try to use flies that FEEL like a natural meal? Does feel affect the fishes response?
I know that I have been biased toward thinking that trout will spit out the fly if it doesn’t seem right… (and I guess that I am guilty of thinking that all fishes are just like trout) but how quickly will the fish spit it out? Is there a benefit to waiting? Are we just feeding our excitement by attempting to set the hook right away, lest the fish quickly decide to spit out the fly? Or is the swift sudden hook set really advantageous? How often do we lose a fish by setting late? Are these encounters really lost bites or was the fish just toying with the fly, or hitting the prey it to stun it.
Understanding fish behavior is an important key to understanding this and it’s something that I lack. If our thinking/understanding is wrong, then perhaps we could change our reactions and become more successful in hooking fish.
If quickening our reaction time is everything, then how can we explain some of the more bizarre scenarios that are utilized to achieve hook-ups?
The strip set seems to me to be a slower reaction, so that the fly is not jerked from the fish’s mouth. By avoiding use of the huge mechanical advantage of the rod set, I imagine that we slow the response at the fly and also avoid a rapid removal of the fly from the fish’s mouth.
Hook sets with circle hooks are less reactionary than the WHAM at the “first strike” approach. The circle hook set is more subtle allowing the fish to begin swimming away from the site of the strike and just apply some gentle pressure to force the hook to the corner of the fish’s mouth. After all, weren’t these hooks designed for long lining where the fish does all of the hook setting itself? Why doesn’t the fish spit out the circle hook before it gets snagged?
I want to tell you about a very different strategy for hook setting that my fishing buddy, Richard, introduced to me back more than 20 years ago while largemouth bass fishing on Lake Okeechobee in Florida. Here it goes. He would fish rubber worms with one big weedless hook and a sliding bullet head weight ahead of the worm (I think it’s called a Texas rig). When he felt the tap-tap-tap of a strike, he would immediately lower the rod tip and release the line (the bail on a spinning reel, or the spool lock on a casting reel) and he would wait…….. He would watch the line being pulled away as the fish swam back to its lair. Once the line stopped moving, he would slowly take up the slack and then…SLAM the hook set. Now when I saw the technique in use, the wait seemed to be an eternity; but, it probably lasted between 10 and 15 seconds. This was a far cry from my more familiar and sudden “WHAM” with the first sign of a strike (perhaps we can call it a “striper set.”). The principle, I was told, was that the fish would grab the goods, then swim back to enjoy the meal at home, where the fish would begin to swallow the worm (like take-out food). I have not seen anyone do this extreme delayed set since that time and I certainly hadn’t seen it prior to meeting Richard. I trained myself to avoid my deep-seated reflexes and to use the technique. It worked for me too! Even more amazing to me is that the fish kept the lure in its mouth and didn’t spit it out throughout this entire waiting period! It seemed that the key was providing NO RESISTANCE to the fish’s movement back to its home. But the fish didn’t spit our the artificial worm!
So, is the quick strike really effective in hooking the fish or are we just fooling ourselves into thinking that we must react quickly, before the fish spits out the fly? Do fish spit out flies due to taste/feel or due to the tension of the line? Do fish even “spit” out flies or do we jerk them out? I don’t profess to know. But I would like to read what many of you think.
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Re: Closing The Deal: Setting The Hook – Are There Any Principles?
by MarshallD (marshtd@adelphia.net) on Saturday, April 01 @ 17:16:12 PST http://www.flyanglersguide.com | AvidDavid,
You've written a long essay on a short subject, but, all of your comments are worthy of discussion. I don't have time to elaborate on all of your essay, but I'll comment on your first question; "Do we need to react quickly to avoid the fish’s refusal of the fly? Or do we react quickly because WE are excited?
The supreme moment of fly fishing (to me, and perhaps a million other fly fishers) is casting to a fish enticing him to eat and striking-setting when he takes.....fooling him. All other sub-surface fly fishing comes second to sight-fishing. That is a zen-like method reserved for when one can't sight fish.
You absolutely MUST remove the personal excitement factor in your mind and replace it with "When he takes it? I'll be ready." You must be supremely confident. Then, hook-setting is a matter of what species requires what hook set. Trout need to be "set" with finesse. Tarpon need to be yanked and double-yanked.
The more fish you hook-set, the more fish you'll catch. Getting more species under your belt is the way to go. Like, find out how to hook-set Bluegill and then, go for Bass. Hooking Snook and is way different. So are Pompano, way different from Trout.
It's cool that you wrote this. I hope to to here more from you. I like your writing.
Marsh |
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Re: Closing The Deal: Setting The Hook – Are There Any Principles?
by AvidDavid on Monday, April 03 @ 08:14:24 PDT | Wow! I had hoped for some responses from this post; but, I am really blown away by MarshallD’s intensive and thoughtful responses. Thanks, Marsh! I had been mulling this post around for several days and then I totally rearranged it just prior to posting it last week. In doing so, I managed to leave out one of my major premises… that some type of delay prior to setting the hook may be beneficial.
That being said, Marsh’s comments are both phenomenally elucidating and also lead to some questions in my head. So, in the interest of exchange of ideas, and in keeping with the fliesandfins tradition of being a forum for thoughts, questions and tips, I will open Pandora’s Box by playing devil’s advocate – or by playing dumb – or just by being my own ignorant self (I do not yet have Lefty’s book). My hope is to elicit some exchange of thoughts that will help me (and maybe even others) to gain some new tricks to add to my (our) tackle arsenals.
I can now see that hook setting should not be so pidgeon-holed as I had originally suggested. It may be a much larger subject than I could have appreciated previously. It may take many different forms and may require different subtleties revolving around:
1) the fisherman’s strike detection paradigm: visual detection (seeing the fish take the fly), indicator detection (not seeing the fly but seeing an indicator pause or move in response to action on the fly), or tactile detection (again not seeing the fly but instead feeling the fish take the fly)
2) Whether fishing in still versus moving water
3) Species differences (MarshallD has discussed this in his responses)
4) Size differences (fish size)
Marsh has indicated that his great love and motivation for fly fishing has to do with SIGHT FISHING. I will, for the sake of discussion, define this as any fly fishing technique in which the fish’s strike or take of the fly is detected visually (I understand that this lumps (perhaps unfairly) those who hunt their fish, find it then begin fishing with those who cast flies shallow or on the surface to find their fish). I agree that visualization of the fish taking the fly is extremely satisfying. My first exposure to fly fishing was castin poppers to bluegills with my grandfather who was at the time the same age as I am now! What warm memories I have of that. So, I too have had that satisfaction (although I shudder [and I imagine that MarshallD cringes] at the comparison of bluegills to tarpon). However, now I more often fish subsurface and must rely on indicator detection or tactile detection. Therefore, I am quite interested in any hook setting techniques including techniques used by those of us who often fish blindly.
I must argue with MarshallD on one point. He described a “supremely confident” state of mind for sight fishing, “When he takes it? I’ll be ready.” He also described subsurface, blind, fishing as “zen-like.” I must admit that his description of state of mind for sight fishing sounds much more “zen-like” than I ever feel while fishing nymphs with indicators. Perhaps the grass on the other side of the fence always seems more “zen-like.”
Timing of the hook set is probably one of the keys to successful hook sets and landing of the fish. And this timing must, in turn, depend upon the time that the fly stays in the fish’s mouth. While this may vary between species, for starters, I would like to offer the following thoughts:
1) The fish decides to allow the fly into its mouth predominantly due to the fly’s appearance (fish’s visual sense)
2) The time that the fish retains the fly in its mouth is determined by MarshallD’s “fraud of the fly.” I interpret this to be the feel and possibly the flavor of the fly in the fish’s mouth (fish’s tactile and chemical sensations). (I won’t get into chemical [flavor/odor] sensation since most of us in fly fishing don’t knowingly use odorants.) The feel of the fly may involve the
a. texture o
Read the rest of this comment... |
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Re: Closing The Deal: Setting The Hook – Are There Any Principles?
by hedrush999 on Tuesday, April 04 @ 06:28:02 PDT http://www.fliesandfinssouth.com | | I can put it as simple as it gets as far as fishing the salt goes, whether sight fishing or not. When stripping the fly and a fish takes it, keep stripping until the fish pulls back. Sometimes it is imparative to hit the fish with a low blow with the rod to make sure the hook is in as good as it can be. This is easier said than done, but with practice even the most "hard core dry fly only" guys can hook a fish or two down here. |
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